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HOME • MANAGE SUBSCRIPTIONS • MEDIA KIT
Let's Stop Being Dumb
by Dave Morgan, Thursday, February 1, 2007, 1:00 PM

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By now, most of you probably know that most of Boston was locked down yesterday in traffic jams and mass transit delays because of a guerilla marketing campaign gone bad.

Black boxes with electronics were placed in heavily trafficked public places in a number of large U.S. cities. These devices were there to project LED images on public walls, bridges, abutments and the like. The projection of these images in public places was intended, I suspect, to create lots of cool buzz among the public about a new media launch. At this point, it appears that permits were not obtained to place these devices in Boston, nor was the Boston police department notified of their existence.

This was really, really dumb.

Anyone who's been in a subway, boat, airplane, bus, airport, bus station, train station, post office, school, government building, tall building, public park, tour boat or sporting event at some point over the past five-and-one-half years knows that there is a high degree of concern about the placement of suspicious devices. Government authorities, and most members of the public, are appropriately concerned that folks with bad intentions might use public spaces to place things that can harm people. We are all reminded of this daily on the evening news. In many places, there are signs and periodic announcements directing members of the public to immediately report the existence of any strange unattended boxes, packages or devices to police authorities. Apparently, that is what happened in Boston. Authorities then went into emergency mode to manage the situation. Images of the subway bombings in London or the train bombings in Madrid were just too fresh.

If the objective of the campaign was to get the attention of the citizens of Boston -- and the entire country -- mission accomplished! If part of the objective was to enhance a client's brand -- massive failure! A great family-oriented brand has been damaged in an incalculable way, and significant monetary damage could follow via compensatory damages, fines and legal fees.

I know that many folks in the marketing and advertising world think that the only way to "cut through the clutter" with consumers is to shock them in unexpected ways and in unexpected places. However, it is one thing to do it within a media vehicle; it is another thing to do it in a public place. At the least, the latter requires a certain amount of common sense and an awareness of, and compliance with, local laws and regulations. Whether or not the latter occurred here is a matter for the appropriate courts and public officials to determine. As to the former, I can only ask, "What were you thinking?"

We who have made the world of advertising and marketing our vocation have enough image-related issues to deal with every day without having to stomach this kind of stuff. Given all of the recent calls that our Washington legislators are getting for greater regulation of the advertising industry, stunts like this are particularly damaging. Please, let's use our common sense before we do stupid stuff like this.

1 person recommends this article. 

46 comments on "Let's Stop Being Dumb"

  1. Ari Kaufman from Advertising Online, Reactionary with Insight
    commented on: February 07, 2007 at 11:58 AM
    This article sure stimulated some great conversation! I think your post was great Dave, insightful. The bottom line is you're right that in the end Comedy Central will benefit and that is not a justification for the act and Boston's reaction is not the issue. People need to be held accountable to the stupidity this and recognize that this is a post-911 society that we live in. You have to be living under a rock today not to be aware of the fact that what these people were doing is unacceptable. Why this did not ignite reaction in other cities is interesting, but to go about it without permits or with approval paved the road for trouble. Everyone knows you don't yell fire in a theatre. And its time to know that suspicious electronics or packages in public places fall into the same category now. In the end, this show will benefit and Comedy Central will benefit. I hope Boston prosecutes the agency. I hope that the Turner also get's slapped with penalties for approvale of the campaign. The costs and impact that this had on the city are significant. If nothing more, the lack of permits are prosecutable. Good piece. Reactionary with Insight. www.arikaufman.com

  2. jillian tate from Integrated Media Solutions
    commented on: February 05, 2007 at 1:21 PM
    THEY WERE MOONINITES!! Everyone under 35 got it! We know what those cartoon characters are! If anyone had stopped to check the images being projected, they would have recognized them as Aqua Teen Hunger Force symbols. Instead of saying that it was a stupid campaign, maybe you should be saying that officials should research the inherent symbols on the suspect boxes before completely overreacting. Or asked someone in the Adult Swim demographic. I think it was a fantastic campaign, and I'm sorry that an overzealous, out of touch force chose to make it into such a fiasco, instead of laughing hilariously at the Mooninite "doing this as hard as I can."

  3. Pinny Cohen from PinMedia
    commented on: February 02, 2007 at 3:15 PM
    Bruce,

    Yes, I suppose some people of that age group would find it purely funny, but I don't think that it would be anywhere near a unanimous opinion - even from that demographic.

    I do agree with you on the fact that a younger investigator would have a higher chance of catching that fact.

    As younger people make a larger impact and get more of an opportunity to speak, we will also need to find younger people to interpret what they are saying...

  4. Bruce Striler from Pundmann Ford
    commented on: February 02, 2007 at 11:07 AM
    There was a comment that I heard where someone mentioned that if one of the investigators was younger they probably would have noticed the character's image was from the Cartoon Network. While there seems little doubt that damage was done to the people of Boston and the fear that ensued, I have my doubts whether the Cartoon Network's brand suffered too much damage. I use my 18 year old son's comments that he thinks the ad campaign was cool and didn't think anything more of it.

  5. Terry Goldman from ElectricArtists
    commented on: February 02, 2007 at 11:01 AM
    This clip on YouTube, while funny is also very TRUE- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4G-D0F4Q9yk

  6. Pinny Cohen from PinMedia
    commented on: February 01, 2007 at 10:12 PM
    Dave,

    I agree, and have a different way of analyzing the Boston situation:

    http://www.pinnycohen.com/2007/02/01/marketing-wisdom/bad-branding-in-boston/

  7. Brad Bacon from The Weather Channel Interactive
    commented on: February 01, 2007 at 8:17 PM
    I agree with your points, Dave, with one exception; frankly, Cartoon Network is NOT a great family-oriented brand. In reality, the children programming is void of any redeeming value and Adult Swim content is as crass and vulgar as anything ever produced. This may be some family's idea of a good thing but count mine out!

  8. Christopher Neer from Bealls Department Stores, Inc
    commented on: February 01, 2007 at 8:14 PM
    And I mean Turner as a Company, not so much this particular entity because in it's own right I agree this is not a worthy family brand...Adult Swim---whatever. Christopher Neer

  9. Christopher Neer from Bealls Department Stores, Inc
    commented on: February 01, 2007 at 7:02 PM
    I totally concur. This was as bad as the 2004 Superbowl Halftime Show. A promising brand ruined by such stupidity makes us all look like a bunch of idiots.

    Christoper Neer Broadcast Media Supervisor BEALLS DEPARTMENT STORES, INC.

  10. Tyssir Zouri from LookSmart
    commented on: February 01, 2007 at 6:33 PM
    I respected you once, now WHAT are you talking about here??? you need to stop writing you have lost all credibility with the real world.

  11. Cece Forrester from tbd
    commented on: February 01, 2007 at 6:32 PM
    How about getting back to Dave's original point? There's a tendency in the ad world to act without considering the downside, and this is a prime example. We are supposed to be smart people who can foresee the results of our actions. This is especially important when operating in the physical world, where a lack of realistic thinking can get people hurt.

    The other thing that could stand a little discussion is this: The thing went wrong because the majority of people exposed to the gimmick didn't have any idea what it was supposed to be. Didn't we used to call that "waste"? Instead, the reaction is "How stupid of the general public for not being familiar with an offbeat cult favorite cartoon."

  12. Terry Goldman from ElectricArtists
    commented on: February 01, 2007 at 5:22 PM
    I'm sorry but I don't think when the terrorists attack again they'll do it with a cartoon character flipping us off.

    Readers--- Raise your hand if you had ever heard of Aqua Teen Hunger Force or Adult Swim before this event yesterday?

    Now raise your hand if you've heard of Aqua Teen Hunger Force or Adult Swim?

    Thanks Media- you've made this more successful than those silly Light Brite boards could have EVER done. Aqua Teen Force is getting a great deal. Millions upon millions of impressions which will far outcede the cost of the fines.

    Yes, things could have been done differently (i.e. getting permits or city permission) but come on people, you're being ridiculous!

  13. Terry Goldman from ElectricArtists
    commented on: February 01, 2007 at 5:02 PM
    Harry over at AINT IT COOL hits this on the nose: http://www.aintitcool.com/node/31418 -- We are own on worst enemies- who needs terrorists? Excerpt: "It's illegal to yell FIRE in a theater - you arrest the person who screamed FIRE! This kid didn't yell, BOMB. The media did, the city did. If there was panic in the city, it was caused by the BOSTON news stations, radio stations and the people in government that leaked the story to them. They're the ones to blame, not the cartoon character."

  14. Lauren Anderson from The Creative Department
    commented on: February 01, 2007 at 4:54 PM
    WHAT! "A great familt-oriented brand"??? Have you ever watched Adult Swim? Please, let's use our common sense before we write stupid stuff like this.

  15. Dave Morgan from TACODA
    commented on: February 01, 2007 at 4:43 PM
    Given all of the great comments, I thought that I might make a few more points:

    One, the "family-oriented brand" behind Comedy Central is Time Warner. Their management and shareholders are the ones that will be held accountable here, and it was the Time Warner brand that Rep. Ed Markey singled (D-Boston) in denoucing the incident. By the way, Rep. Markey is senior member of the Commerce Committee, which has jurisdiction over the FTC and many issues that impact the advertising industry.

    Two. Tens of millions of dollars in productivity were probably lost by the companies that employed the tens and tens of thousands of workers that were stranded in the traffic jams, not to mention the costs incurred by the local and federal governments in responding here. Does it matter that Comedy Central may have gained visibility for their new programming? Do they have any right to gain at the expense of those tens and tens of thousands and their employers (who are unlikely to dock the pay of those that were stranded) and their shareholders. Who cares that it created viral buzz? Does it matter that there were not similar responses in other markets? Why should that matter? It happened in Bostong and anyone with a wit of common sense could have forseen what occurred, if they had cared to worry about it.

    Three. I don't know when the last package bomb was exploded in a public space in the US. But I do know that one killed during the Atlanta Olympics. That should be enough.

    Two,

  16. Christopher West II from REVShare
    commented on: February 01, 2007 at 4:29 PM
    Come on now, how many other marketing stunts have you read about recently where the people involved were arrested?

  17. Lauren Anderson from The Creative Department
    commented on: February 01, 2007 at 4:18 PM
    WHAT! "A great familt-oriented brand"??? Have you ever watched Adult Swim? Please, let's use our common sense before we write stupid stuff like this.

  18. Jeff Beliveau from Consumer Networks - Boodle.com
    commented on: February 01, 2007 at 4:12 PM
    Time for another pop quiz. Anyone remember Richard Jewell?

    He was the hero who saved an unknown number of lives at the Atlanta Olympics by worrying about that "ordinary object" lying under a park bench. And then was crucified in the media who decided he planted it.

    All this in a pre-9/11 time period.

    Or even easier. Let's make it simple. One word. Unabomber.

    And although you may rememebr him as MAILING the devices much of his actions were by leaving "ordinary objects".

    Here is a quote from his decrypted diary: Experiment 97. Dec. 11, 1985. I planted a bomb disguised to look like a scrap of lumber behind Rentech Computer Store in Sacramento. According to the San Francisco Examiner, Dec. 20, the "operator" (owner? manager?) of the store was killed, "blown to bits, on Dec. 12. Excellent. Humane way to eliminate somebody. He probably never felt a thing. 25,000 reward offered. Rather flattering.

    "Not much" is not the same as "nothing" and I think Mr. Scrutton's family (the man who died) might have a different take on "much" and "ordinary objects".

  19. Daniel Ciccone from USAToday.com
    commented on: February 01, 2007 at 4:10 PM
    As someone who lives in downtown Chicago and takes public transportation every day - the PA system on all of the buses and all of the trains comes on every once in awhile and states, "if you see an unattended pacakge or item, please notify someone at the CTA immediately." I personally don't care how this all turns out, but I don't think it's being paranoid or overreacting for someone to be alarmed when they see an unattended box with wires, batteries, and an unusual/unrecognized light flashing. If you live downtown in a large metropolitan area, you'll understand...if you don't, you probably won't.

  20. Monty Fitzwater from Speakeasy Magazine
    commented on: February 01, 2007 at 4:09 PM
    Perhaps this wasn't implemented in the wisest fashion, but calling in the bomb squad? Come on. That's ridiculous. And the statement that it distracted from the fight against terrorism for 12 hours? What, did they see this happening and say, "Boy, now's our chance!"? And this guy is an elected official.

  21. Jamie Nelson from IMS
    commented on: February 01, 2007 at 4:06 PM
    While I agree with your final paragraph of this could possibly cause some distress to the advertising industry, my first reaction to your title "Lets stop being dumb" was associated with the response of the authorities to this situation. This is a classic and common example of our government parties to "react" to a situation instead of being "proactive." It would take no less than a few seconds of internet research to find the source of these "adolescent misfits" posted around the city. Thereby, saving the people of Boston several thousand dollars spent on the "reaction" of the authorities. There is always two sides to any situation, and I feel the tax dollars of Bostonians and time of authorities could be better spent. And this is not the first time something of this nature has happened (Super Mario Blocks in Ohio).

  22. Shubber Ali from bne1
    commented on: February 01, 2007 at 3:55 PM
    Check out the long history of cruelty by hiding explosives and other lethal substances in ordinary objects meant to entice and draw a crowd. IT’s easy enough to conduct the search.

    Then tell me they overreacted.

    In the United States - I checked. Didn't find much.

    But if it makes you feel better.... BOO! Scared yet?

  23. Steve Bonneau from Uzed.com
    commented on: February 01, 2007 at 3:55 PM
    To Jeff, respectfully...

    So you suggest we shut down the world when we see a doll that someone threw away or dropped, or if we see a misplaced camera, package or any other "ordinary object" lying around - we run and call out the bomb squad.

    If we're so paranoid and fearful - then the terrorists have won.

  24. Jeff Beliveau from Consumer Networks - Boodle.com
    commented on: February 01, 2007 at 3:41 PM
    Dan Beyer has it dead on right about what essentially is hiding in plain site.

    Can anyone name the critical terrorism event of 9/9. Not 9/11...two days before.

    It was the assasination of Ahmad Shah Massoud the leader of the Afghan resistance mevement by a bomb disguised as a video camera.

    Anyone know the name Ramzi Yousef? If you don't, where have you been the past 15 years. Or at least 6. Check out some of his handywork using dolls.

    Just an innocent little device. Why how CUTE. Check out the long history of cruelty by hiding explosives and other lethal substances in ordinary objects meant to entice and draw a crowd. IT's easy enough to conduct the search.

    Then tell me they overreacted.

  25. Terry Goldman from ElectricArtists
    commented on: February 01, 2007 at 3:26 PM
    You obviously know nothing about this brand either as ADULT SWIM is definitely NOT a "family oriented brand".

    You should at least understand what it is you're criticizing before doing so.

  26. ranya riad from self
    commented on: February 01, 2007 at 3:21 PM
    I agree with you it was stupid but I don't fully agree with your comment, "A great family-oriented brand has been damaged in an incalculable way"

    People are so fickle and have such short attention spans, I doubt this brand will be scarred for any significant length of time. I mean as a society we have the ability to stomach a war that's killing hundreds of thousands and we manage to go on and worry about irrelevant matters.

    I'm sure that will just continue.

  27. Steve Bonneau from Uzed.com
    commented on: February 01, 2007 at 3:18 PM
    Should the participants be fined for not getting the proper permits - yes. Did Boston overreact, especially in comparison to the 9 other cities, including NYC who did not react - certainly seems so. Are the other cities lacking in their response to terrorism threat efforts - No. Shouldn't Boston authorities take some responsibility for the way they handle it - sure. Should the mayor and authorities who are taking a hard line back off - yes. Shouldn't everyone chill a bit and put it into perspective - yes.

    Just because Boston's response was what it was - doesn't make the gimmick any more criminal or justify the retaliatory efforts of arresting those involved, beyond the lack of permits.

  28. Jeff Beliveau from Consumer Networks - Boodle.com
    commented on: February 01, 2007 at 3:17 PM
    There seems to be a belief running about, one that even made it here, that the Boston experience was "superior" to the experiences in the other cities because it created "the big buzz".

    The ends justify the means, and hey, those panicky people were just flat out stupid anyway, right?

    And what was it that led to the national news coverage, that big buzz?

    It was the fear it created that these boxes weren't innocent, but rather sinister. That yes, it could be another London, another Madrid, another Tokyo.

    So by that logic one is compelled to argue that future "buzz" campaigns should emulate and expand on this success. Let's not accidentally create an environment of fear - let's make that the GOAL of the project. Because, man, when that fear factor crept in the buzz just skyrocketed!

    Terrorism: The use of violence, or FEAR OF VIOLENCE, to achieve a political, economic, religious, or ideological goal.

    Fear of violence? Check. Economic goal? Check. Cool, we advocate terrorism. Hooray for our side.

  29. Shubber Ali from LocalVision Australia Pty Ltd
    commented on: February 01, 2007 at 2:57 PM
    Maybe everyone in Boston (and the rest of you "Post 9/11 world types" need to be court-issued a big dose of valium so you don't freak out everytime you see a bag or box you don't recognise.

    Pop quiz: when was the last time a package bomb was set off in public in the US?

    Don't do a google search - that's cheating.

    Fear is the weapon that is most dangerous to our society - fear, and the childlike panic that ensues at the drop of a hat. M.A.M. Zimmer was spot on - why didn't this cause panic in the other 10 or so cities where this promo was run? Because no one overreacted.

    THAT'S the lesson that we should all take from this. IMHO.

  30. Seth Barnes from Edmunds.com
    commented on: February 01, 2007 at 2:40 PM
    Has everyone seen the actual devices? You'd have to be pretty paranoid and out of touch to think it was a bomb. There's a video clip on CNN.com. No they didn't have permits, yes it was ultimately a stupid idea, but maybe everyone should take a solid dose of common sense before channeling Jack Bauer.

  31. Jason Gindele from SmartBrief, Inc.
    commented on: February 01, 2007 at 2:36 PM
    There's no ignoring the obvious inconveniences for local officials and commuters. But I love the effort, and I'm sure CN will love the results. I think they will (and should) care less about the brand damage. That will fade, and I'm not sure the damage was that great to begin with. The eyeballs to Adult Swim will increase more than CN could have imagined because of this, and in the end, that's what counts. Folks I've talked to found the whole story amusing and said they now plan to tune in. Mission accomplished.

  32. Kyle Treleaven from Colonies.com Network Inc.
    commented on: February 01, 2007 at 2:28 PM
    We live in too much fear.

  33. Dan Beyer from Blipio
    commented on: February 01, 2007 at 2:23 PM
    The cry from the college crowd referencing this debacle is LED not IED. An art student Todd Vanderlin, 22 years old who is innocently and peripherally involved in the analysis of this story has provided a response typical of the youthful fanboy. Mr. Vanderlin is widely quoted as saying that the nature of the device was obvious to him and that he couldn't understand how it was mistaken as an explosive device. "Its so not threatening--it's a lite brite, it's just a bunch of lights blinking...clearly a design." My response to Mr.Vanderlin and his ilk is what if terrorists camoflauge a real IED inside an innocous toy? The authorities must investigate every threat no matter how innocent in appearance or reality.

  34. Kris Beldin from Politis Communications
    commented on: February 01, 2007 at 2:20 PM
    Inasmuch as I agree that this was a dumb, and I mean dumb, idea, according to the company, Turner Broadcasting, these objects had been in place in Boston, New York, Los Angeles, Atlanta, Portland, Austin, San Francisco, Philadelphia, Chicago and Seattle for 2-3 weeks! So who is at fault here?

    Again, I think it was foolish to even THINK of doing this, but, if these devices were so dangerous and suspicious looking, why hadn't anything been said until yesterday? Either it was much ado about nothing in Boston, or we as a country are still very complacent.

    Read the NBC 11 story here: http://www.nbc11.com/news/10891388/detail.html

  35. Dayna Hinsley from A1 Pool Parts
    commented on: February 01, 2007 at 2:13 PM
    It may have been they didn't do the right thing locally in Boston, but I find that it may just be how things are run in Boston. Given that the MANY other large cities didn't have the same problem.

  36. Mike Patterson from WIP, Inc.
    commented on: February 01, 2007 at 2:11 PM
    Am I mistaken or didn't something like this occur recently in LA with a promotional campaign for "Mission Impossible III"? Small recording devices were placed in newspaper dispensers, when the dispensers were opened the Mission Impossible theme was played. Only problem was some of the devices were disconnected and fell onto the stack of newspapers leaving the unsuspecting newspaper purchaser staring at a small black box with a red blinking light on top. Bomb squads were called, cities held up, same fiasco...

    Did Adult Swim know this and hope for the same effect? If so, double shame on them. Even if they didn't...shame on them.

    It's amazing the amount of attention this thing has received...I was sitting in the Dentist office today and it was the lead CNN story, focusing mainly on the irreverance of the culprits...(wait, CNN is owned by Turner who also owns Adult Swim...hmmmm, sound a little fishy?)

    Aren't we in two wars in the Middle East?

  37. Jim O'Neal from United Stations Radio Network
    commented on: February 01, 2007 at 1:54 PM
    As someone who was in New York for 9/11 and still sees police/military activity on a regular basis in the commuting terminals, this boggles the mind...maybe it's time to re-examine where and by who these "cutting edge" ideas are being developed (my guess is someone in the C.N. target age group made this call??)

  38. M.A.M. Zimmer from Media Ventures International, Ltd.
    commented on: February 01, 2007 at 1:44 PM
    Why is it that citizens in the other 10 or so cities that were part of the campaign didn't react as those of Boston did?

  39. Koshy Thomas from Voice of Asia
    commented on: February 01, 2007 at 1:38 PM
    Getting public permits to post advertising gimmicks is always the sensible thing to do in this time of terrorist threats. Ruining an image or company brand is irreversible. But if the public did not notice the company image, but the government went into emergency mode, then it was a big waste of tax payer dollars. This media company should be fined heavily for its lack of sensibility and causing traffic disruption.

  40. Arthur Barbato from Advertising Database
    commented on: February 01, 2007 at 1:36 PM
    Priceles Viral. The whole idea of guerilla advertising is to create a big buzz. The idea of IEDs is to have the device camouflaged so it will go unnoticed, allowing it to achieve its realized potential of actually blowing the XXXX up. How many IED's feature Bright LEDs? I guess I shouldn't assume common sense to take hold on this issue. I mean it's not like anyone could make the connection that these were Brightly Lighted devices designed to entice interaction and cross-postings. Score Big Viral Fever.

  41. Kareem Harper from UGO Networks, Inc.
    commented on: February 01, 2007 at 1:32 PM
    Adult Swim is a great family-oriented brand that has been damaged in an incalculable way?

    I think that is a stretch. This foolish stunt is exactly the type of antics that define the Adult Swim brand and has firmented it in the minds of the 18-34 year olds that watch it as being "COOL".

    I think the sky isn't falling as you say it is, but yes, this was a dumb marketing gimmick.

  42. Seana Mulcahy from Brand Truth
    commented on: February 01, 2007 at 1:31 PM
    Dave as you know I live in Boston. It was absolutely crazy here yesterday.I cannot even believe Turn approved such a thing. While subways, roads, highways and part of the water was closed yesterday CNN (owned by Turner) kept reporting that this could be terrorism. I think this makes all look bad. You'd think in a Post 9/11 world marketers and advertisers would step up to the plate and take some sort of social responsibility. Now I hear that the little black boxes with the cartoon icon are being hocked on ebay. This too is a shame. I think no one should be able to profit from such a grave act of stupidity. My 2 cents my friend. Cheers--Seana

  43. Michael Kaplan from Astra Zeneca
    commented on: February 01, 2007 at 1:27 PM
    I agree with you... in many ways.. this was just a big ad for terrorists on how easy it is to take advantage of the free world we live in... misguided creativity with a serious lapse in strategic thinking.

  44. Alan Muehlenweg from Phase 2 Interactive
    commented on: February 01, 2007 at 1:23 PM
    I agree with everything you said, except for one thing: "a great family-oriented brand." This campaign was designed to increase visibility of Aqua Teen Hunger Force, an Adult Swim cartoon. There is nothing family-oriented about Adult Swim cartoons.

    Don't get me wrong; Family Guy is hilarious, but definitely not appropriate for my kids. And did you see what the LED image was doing? Giving the general public the bird! Family-oriented? Nope.

  45. David Fulton from Masterfoods USA
    commented on: February 01, 2007 at 1:18 PM
    thank you. I had just finished reading Wayne Friedman's posting and I thought we had all gone crazy. Profits doesn't justify the means.

    It's sad.

  46. Anthony Cirillo from Fast Forward Consulting
    commented on: February 01, 2007 at 1:15 PM
    Say what you will, I bet the CN executives are grinning ear to ear figuring all publicity is good publicity. Anthony Cirillo, Fast Forward Marketing, Huntersville, NC

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DAVE MORGAN
  • Dave Morgan is the CEO of Simulmedia. Previously, he founded and ran both TACODA and Real Media.


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