| |||||||||||
PRINT
COMMENT
SUBSCRIBE
RSSThe panel included two of the biggest names in for-profit blogging: John Battelle, who runs the blog ad network Federated Media (and, just, in general, knows his shit), and Nick Denton, head of Gawker Media, whose job on panels seems to be to counter everything that everyone else has said. (He once said to me -- and he's told this to others, too -- that he's never said he created Gawker Media to make a profit, so we'll see if he takes the bait on my "for-profit" description and comments.)
Battelle sees social media as the thing that will finally make online advertising truly engaging: "I think social media is the place that is going to happen. I really believe that," he said on the panel. Denton, meanwhile, said that the very thing that makes social media so attractive to consumers makes it a "failure as an advertising medium." In other words, people don't want to be sold to when they are deeply engaged in a highly personal medium. Since that panel I've been wondering, which one is right? Or is it possible that both points of view, taken in the appropriate context, could be right?
Battelle talked about the success of Federated's partnership with Dell on Facebook's Graffiti Wall application in January, where there was a contest which let users illustrate what "green" meant to them. The effort was created to support Dell's ReGeneration initiative, but it may be difficult to think of it as a campaign -- as long as a campaign is defined as an outbound series of marketing messages, delivered on a set schedule, centered around a central product and theme.
There are a lot of impressive stats here: 1.1 million people voted on their favorite illustration, 7,300 people entered a submission, the contest has almost 1,300 friends, and there are currently 209 comments to the post at ReGeneration.org announcing the winners. Clearly, Dell's ReGeneration effort supports Battelle's contention that social media may finally make online advertising much more interesting to users than the ongoing crop of forgettable banner campaigns.
Now, change your focus to a little online ad button on Facebook featuring a picture of a man's balding head and touting a hair loss cream. That ad is pretty representative of Denton's point of view. I even saw the ad within the pages of the ReGeneration group. Yecch! What is it doing there? Clearly, we don't have social networking's killer advertising app down quite yet.
But the dichotomy remains fascinating. Does this medium work for advertising? Well, if you define it in the way we've always defined advertising, I think you have to support Denton. There's something so highly personal about my Facebook page that I don't particularly like it when that same ad for hair loss cream shows up in what I've come to think of as my personal space. Seriously, folks, my Facebook photo demonstrates that I have so much hair, I might need a cream that does the opposite -- there's a little voice inside me that feels that if my Facebook page is going to advertise at me, it should know that.
On the other hand, if you think of social media advertising as conversations marketers are striking up with their constituents, then Battelle has a point. But whatever these interactions are, they shouldn't be called advertising, and maybe not even marketing. They should be called something else.
This morning I talked to James Gross, the East Coast director of sales at Federated, and asked him what he calls initiatives like Dell's Graffiti Wall contest. He paused a minute and said, "I don't want to call it a conversation," before settling on "overall brand experience."
Interestingly, no agency was used to create this, um, engagement situation. Though Gross stressed that Federated loves advertising agencies and works with them every day, it came about because Federated not only works with Dell on the more mundane business of selling banners, but also because the people at Dell had been fascinated with a live version of Graffiti Wall (an application which Federated represents) that ran at an Oracle conference.
Should putting these deals together always be the role of an ad agency? Not necessarily -- especially if you don't call this advertising.
1 person recommends this article.
RSS FEEDS
However, as social media tools evolve, so will tools to sell products and services in online communities. Take, online health, for example. In working with partner health sites, at HealthPricer we have found that relevant product placements that accompany the search that each visitor is doing at that point in time is welcomed and valued by users – matching health information and e-commerce in one place. There really is a case to be made for similar product placements in social media, but it has to be relevant and current.
Meredith - You cut to the essence of our overall debate, and the debate between Denton and Battelle. Is this advertising or marketing or both or neither. Does it even matter what we call it? we want to talk with, not at. But talking with means listening - which isn't talking at all.
Dave -- You mean Jakob Nielsen aka useit.com, not Nielsen/Net Ratings, right? Also, social media goes into Ops because that's where Customer Service is, right? And THAT'S the magic word. My kid bro is all about going the next step from CRM to CRF - customer relationship facilitation. You may enjoy Confused of Calcutta from JP Rangaswami. He heads the British Tel info services division. You may have seen the Better Thinking spots on the Bloomberg.
Tom -- Ship and engage, good. "Get talked about" misses the point. See "talking with" above.
Steve -- Get real, man. People do all their web 2 stuff at work :-) Seriously, both your options are sub-optimal. How about having all of cust serv, half of MKT, plus a nice stream of info out of R&D flowing into web 2 land. Now that's a company ready for the social web.
Ed - Gets it. CRM or CRF???
David G -- By engaging, not advertising, companies achieve results similar to what advertising is supposed to do. Agencies better get with the program, IMO, as painful as that will be for them. (Does that contradict my support for Ed's position?)
David Gould -- Also gets it. Do motorcycle dealers do group rides on the weekends the way bicycle shops do, every Sunday or whatever? (NB - how is an off-roading club web 2? Good question, huh?)
Brian -- With CTRs below 0.1% ('fess up, all y'all), what's the difference between an ad working and not working?
Stevie Wilson -- Are you sure you want to attract savvy eyes to this? I call this approach web two point faux. This is a typical promotion executed on the web, and you convinced some teenagers that it's web 2. But the Frymaster sees all. Look at the freakin' numbers. Your 'winner:' leopard_model_5' had fewer views than Alison - the real winner - had reviews. You reward some insider pros. Pals of yours? Alison has clearly created her look and the photo herself. Her entry has the authentic feel that defines web 2. leopard_model_5 doesn't even have a face.
My take on CathArine's post: Facebook is okay, but I'm not overly invested in what happens there. (Except, of course, I'm in emotional paralysis because SOMEBODY hasn't accepted my invitation to be friends. Yet.) Sure, companies should use these tools to get a feel for this new territory, but Facebook is not the be-all-and-end-all. The real future here is the CRM/CRF style platforms. So I'm with Denton, except there's value for brands in social media as long as they don't stink up the place with ads. Counter-intuitive is my watchword.
The Internet is a toddler, and social media is its limited vocabulary. Would you make investments based on what a toddler tells you. (I know, it's a TV spot already.)
And, finally, a public service message on how to integrate links in your posts with the famous "a tag." Tags are the things that tell web pages how to look and act. They are always contained in pointy brackets. I substitute square brackets because if I used pointy brackets, this code would "render" and be a hyperlink. Tags have an open and a close. Always close your tags.
To use: Copy the line below into a text editor and replace all the square brackets with pointy brackets. Replace "TARGET_URL" with the URL of the site you want to link to and replace "LINK_WORDS" with the words you want to act as the link. Now copy it into your blog comment. When the comment appears, the code will render as the hyperlink.
[a href="TARGET_URL"]LINK_WORDS[/a]
All right. I'm caught up. It's Wednesday, is there a new post?
Customer Collaboration isn't advertising or marketing, it is something that marketers do to innovate more rapidly and make better advertising and marketing decisions.
I agree with James Gross, Dell's Graffiti Wall initiative is not a conversation, unless of course you enjoy talking to walls?
More on this topic at http://www.customercollaboration.org
as a person highly engaged in both sides of this equation-- editorial and social media/web 2.0 marketing, the placement of the Dell campaign is much like what goes on at brickfish.com -- and my campaign there is the perfect example of a campaign that is not really advertising but can be used as such-- and it's an ideal way to get consumers engaged and experienced with the product and thinking about it in the back flow of their minds and create brand awareness/recognition and ultimately a sale because they have already integrated it into their experience.
what you have when you do social media marketing is take advertising beyond "advertising" to a brand awareness, integrate it into something that is more about connecting with the consumer on an entirely different level. it's the same thing that happened with campbell's soup or kleenex when tv first came out (according to my history research) -- that these brands along with Betty Crocker became identified with a certain personality or character type that indicated "good mom, good wife, good whatever" Think of it as another approach to subliminal and there is that element.
will it work? Heck yes. Will it keep evolving -- heck yes. how far can it be pushed? -- really far.. My brickfish campaign which had no real brand involvement other than my blog attached to it and a prize of Marc Jacobs accessories (with no official connection by Jacobs and that was clearly stated) had projected engagement of 100K over 3 month period. I went to work on it -- knowing that my name/ability and blog were being branded and pushed out there-- and used techniques to blow past the projection in 3 weeks. At the end of three months, the number of engagements was almost 1.1 million .. and I did a lot of subtle pushing and use of bloggers (3) as well as my own and social aggregators.
It does require expertise, knowledge, time and effort. It's not a fast turnaround-- unless you pull in more people and have some $$ to spend to pay them.
Was this an advertising campaign -- of sorts. It was more of media campaign with a undercurrent of advertising though it wasn't about anything specific. Imagine if there had been, it would have been even bigger.
Are we sure that this balding man ad isn't working? If we've all seen it so often, I bet it is.
I believe that as social networks become more niche focused, that advertising will take on a much more personal slant. I posted about this (http://www.michaelmyers.biz/CRUCES/advertising-as-of-self-expression/) and believe that we will see more advertising as self expression, as technologically enabled tweens, who are loyal to brands, create more of the online experience.
I think that we need to be creating tools that allow users to recommend businesses to their social graph. Tools beyond a banner ad or a avatar. Something more. I have some ideas as to what those tools and am curious to know what you think.
:Michael Myers
Also it is opening a nice snug spot for companies like mine (Net-Recon) that are targeting only these services from a strategic and execution standpoint (promotional sites, flash games, widgets, truly new social media tactics).
I hope we see more discussion about this being different than advertising.. it really sits outside of what ad agencies, creative agencies, and direct marketing firms have done (again, I think some of them will adopt into this space.. but to say it originated from any of those spaces is wrong)
I also posted a link to your thought provoking post on my blog - thanks!
some others.. "Customers set up a hierarchy of values, wants, and needs based on emperical data, opinions, word-of-mouth references, and previous experiences with products and servies. they use that information to make purchasing decisions." Regis McKenna
sounds like "search"-ing to me? right?
this one says it well enough. "Perception extends from the quality reputation of the product and its manufacturer to the reputation of other established users of the product." -Regis McKenna
established users.. word of mouth.. hmm.. word of mouth advertising = social networking?
why will social media work? because instead of people going to a physical place to exhange ideas they do so from the comfort of their own home, meaning there is less occurances of "politeness" because people speak their mind.. also greater accessibility to more people.
now.. when your company's name, brand, message and reputation are on the line.. is your brand steward the intern because they understand blogging, etc..?
Or are you having an advertising agency handle it?
The very best brands have always done that - but it is available to many more now.
Regarding the social web (conversations) do lots of things to be remarkable - and you will get talked about.
Tom O'Brien
Compare Dell's campaign, for example, to TripAdvisor's use of Facebook. They've extended their core products into Facebook, creating "Where I've Been" and restaurant applications that easily draw user interaction and create a compelling reason to include their apps high on the place. I'm not sure how Dell could leverage the platform in the same way -- perhaps through creating a feedback loop about products design and features. Whatever the case, there's a massive interactive, relationship-building opportunity that companies like TripAdvisor are tapping into while Dell is testing Facebook applications that are not directly related to its brand.
Instead, social media succeeds as a marketing and/or advertising tool only to the extent that participative experience involves a brand, product, service or simialr. If I'm looking for a campsite, and the conversation I'm in references REI as a place to get gear, I'll probably go to REI. If REI runs a banner ad adjacent to the same discussion, I'll probably ignore it.
The challenge then is to create the kinds of experiences that result in (positive) talk or other forms of social content. This isn't really advertising, although it's certainly related to it. Positive talk on the Social Web results from a successful execution in Operations, combined with a properly set expectation in Marketing. Advertising is certainly a part of the latter.
The issue facing agencies is that they typically are NOT connected to Operations. Where most account execs could name the CMO of their client; fewer could name the COO. Further, most clients are themsleves segregated: Ops is separate from Marketing. Close that gap--and as an agency exec, build a metrics-driven relatioinship with the COO--and suddenly the social web looks a lot more like what John is talking about.
We've all talked about how social can't work if brands are talking "at" them, and I'd love to open a discussion about better ways to talk "with" them.
Thoughts?