Welcome | View My Profile | Sign Out
MediaPost Home About MediaPost Privacy/Terms Media Kit Sitemap
Publications Home News
Online Media Daily Media Daily News Marketing Daily Mobile Marketing Daily Search Marketing Daily
Daily Feed> Email Daily Feed> Video Daily Feed> Social
Online Blogs
Online Spin Email Insider Search Insider Behavioral Insider Online Publishing Insider Mobile Insider Video Insider Gaming Insider Performance Insider Metrics Insider Social Media Insider Just An Online Minute Daily Online Examiner Raw Blog
Media Blogs
Research Brief Diane Mermigas:On Media TV Watch TV Board Magazine Rack Media Creativity Notes From the Digital Frontier Digital Outsider Mad Blog Red White and Blog
Marketing Blogs
Engage:Hispanics Engage:Kids 6-11 Engage:Moms Engage:Boomers Engage:Gen Y Engage:Teens Marketing:Green Marketing:Sports
Magazines
OMMA Magazine Media Magazine
Subscribe
Feedback Loop RSS Feeds Archives Subscribe
Dec 2 Search Insider Summit (Utah) Dec 6 Email Insider Summit (Utah) Jan 11 OMMA Agency of the Year (NYC) Jan 12 MEDIA Agency of the Year (NYC) Jan 26 OMMA Social (San Francisco) Jan 27 OMMA Performance (SF) Feb 24 OMMA Metrics Measurement (NYC) Feb 25 OMMA Behavioral (NYC) Mar 15 OMMA Global (San Francisco) Apr 14 Search Insider Summit (FL) Apr 18 Email Insider Summit (FL)
Recently Concluded Events
Nov 3 OMMA Adnets (NYC) Oct 30 OMMA Video (LA) Oct 29 OMMA Mobile (LA) Oct 29 OMMA Mobile & Video (LA) Sep 23 Creative Media Awards (NYC) Sep 23 The Future Of Media (NYC) Sep 22 Online All Stars (NYC) Sep 21 OMMA Awards (NYC) Sep 21 MediaPost Live at Advertising Week All-Access (NYC) Sep 21 OMMA Global New York (NYC)
All MediaPost/OMMA Events Event Blogging Past Event Videos
Industry Events Calendar
2010 OMMA Agency of the Year 2010 MEDIA Agency of the Year
2009 Creative Media Awards 2009 OMMA Awards 2009 Digital Out-of-Home Awards 2009 Media Agency of the Year 2009 OMMA Agency of the Year
All Awards
Employment Situations Wanted Services Offered Post a Job
Briefs Reports Online
MediaPost Directories
Mobile Insiders Group
People Finder Edit My Profile View My Profile My Contacts My Calendar
HOME • MANAGE SUBSCRIPTIONS • MEDIA KIT
Agency Time Sheets Vs. Viewer Time Sheets
by Gregory Wilson, Monday, April 21, 2008, 11:00 AM

SHARE

TOOLS

RELATED ARTICLES
TAGS:  Ad Spending, Video

MOST READ

The meeting was starting to get interesting.

The creative agency had just presented to the client what they would charge to come up with a concept for a 90-second, online video commercial.

The cost-controller on the client side, who had been listening silently, now had center stage. Not surprisingly, he was making the best of it; slicing and dicing like a Benihana chef.

Number of people on the job, hours against, agency time sheets, all being gutted by the cost-controller. The agency was taking a beating, and when the cost-controller finally sat down, the proposed fee lying in tatters, the agency's Managing Director stood up.

"Agreed," he said. The cost-controller looked up, perplexed, expecting a more spirited defense.

"Agency time sheets are an analog way to measure our worth," the Managing Director continued. "Not to mention, our value to you. So, our suggestion is that you start paying part of our fee based on viewer time sheets."

"Viewer time sheets?" the cost-controller asked. "What's a viewer time sheet?"

The Managing Director responded with a question of his own. "Because this online commercial is 90 seconds long, those who are interested will opt-in to watch, right?"

"Correct, " answered someone from the digital division. Ninety seconds is too long for pre-roll.

"Which means," said the Managing Director, "that we'll know when people start viewing. If so, then doesn't that same digital technology also allow us to know when they stop viewing?"

"Also correct," said the digital guy. "You'll know how many of the ninety seconds of the commercial were actually used. I mean, viewed."

"Well, said the Managing Director, "that's your viewer time sheet. What we're proposing is that instead of paying us for how long we worked on the commercial, pay us based on how long people watch the commercial."

The head of marketing on the client side, who up to now had been listening to this discussion with a bemused indifference, was suddenly anything but indifferent. "Let me get this right," he said. "What you're saying is that instead of us paying you for effort, you'd be willing to be paid based on outcome?"

"Exactly," said the Managing Director.

The cost-controller was looking a bit stunned. I think he could see the writing on the wall. "But, but -- this means that the viewer will be doing my job," he stammered.

"I'm afraid so," replied the Managing Director, as he slid the tattered proposal into the wastebasket. "But we feel that's better than you trying to do ours."

More discussion followed. Pros and cons were weighed, but the audacity of the idea had the room buzzing.

Imagine being paid based on how good you are versus how large. Obviously, not every agency would be willing to work under these criteria. After all, under the current system, agencies get paid whether viewers watch the work or not. There's safety in that.

It takes an agency with a supreme amount of confidence in their ability to be paid based on their ability. This agency seemed fearless.

I don't imagine that many marketers can say the same about theirs.

1 person recommends this article. 

11 comments on "Agency Time Sheets Vs. Viewer Time Sheets "

  1. JD Sesto from Dunhill Vacations
    commented on: April 22, 2008 at 12:21 PM
    WebVision Travel, WebVision Italy, and our other brands have been compensated for our video production and distribitution, viral video campaigns (some of which receive 10,000 viewers in first day), social networking management and writing skills etc. on a performace-based model since 2005. Our advertisers clearly are in favor as we have never llst an account, only gained business in the three years we have been doing this. We charge per view/click/action, which makes our upside significantly higher, and our customers signifcantly happier since there is no Kabuki dance each month wereby we all agree their were clicks but no sales. Our customers gladly pay our fees because we understand the long-tail part of the business most agencies are not interested, but is where the word-of-mouth viral marketing picks up steam. CHOO CHOO we will keep going down this track!

  2. kim novick from novick:creative
    commented on: April 22, 2008 at 9:19 AM
    Greg -- Thanks for your thoughts. Yes. I wish more agencies would take responsibility for the clients they choose and for the work they produce. Your comments triggered my blog post at novick.blogs.com/.

  3. Buffy Kelly from Tattoo Projects
    commented on: April 22, 2008 at 7:54 AM
    Love your line, "It takes an agency with a supreme amount of confidence in their ability to be paid based on their ability." Your fun article basically sums up the business model of Tattoo Projects, Charlotte, NC-based advertising and creative agency. Our view on the evils of timesheets was published by the Marketing Forum in an article titled, "I Just Got a Manicure-- Can I Put That On My Timesheet?". You can check out the article at http://blog.tattooprojects.com/?s=timesheets&x=0&y=0. And, visit www.tattooprojects.com to see our work, and how we operate.

  4. Gil Lavie from Keta Keta
    commented on: April 22, 2008 at 3:31 AM
    Our company has been working on a performace-based model with our viral video campaigns for quite some time. Advertisers seem to be very much in favor of paying for results and not just for nice ideas and impressive productions. We charge per view/click/action, which makes our upside significantly higher.

  5. Lee Graham from Lee-Graham.com
    commented on: April 21, 2008 at 12:45 PM
    Fantastic idea and it definitely has sparked some good discussion points by everyone leaving comments. I really love the idea of doing that, but I do see where that may be hard for some agencies to do.

    I'd definitely like to know more about the stats of a agency doing this 100% of the time.

  6. John Morton from johnfmorton.com
    commented on: April 21, 2008 at 12:19 PM
    This may cause agencies and their clients into rethinking the trend I've found when working inside an agency where the agency is used as a vendor to deliver what a client asks for instead of an agency delivering a solution to a problem and standing behind it. I've been in situations where I was mandated to make changes to work that I felt, as the creative on the agency side, was detrimental to the effectiveness of the work. If the agency was being compensated on the effectiveness of work, maybe the agency would have more courage to say "no" to situations like that.

    I've been situations more than once where I was forced to compromise what I felt was the best choice for ads/campaigns/sites because, at the end of the day, the agency was being paid by the client and the client's dictate was the final word. When the agency ISN'T potentially being paid because of a change to work that they didn't agree with, how would that change the relationship?

  7. Philip Schwartz from Schwartz Communications, Inc.
    commented on: April 21, 2008 at 12:09 PM
    Getting paid based on performance may sound great but you cannot run an ad agency that way. Or any other service business. I advise both my advertiser and ad agency clients to structure incentive compensation where a base amount is guaranteed to cover the agency's costs. Compensation above that level comes when results achieve specified levels. While there are challenges to getting both parties to agree, it can be done. http://www.schwartzcom.com

  8. Hugh Simpson from AVmagination
    commented on: April 21, 2008 at 12:05 PM
    GREAT idea! I think that we could make that work at WOW! Presentation. I will run it pass my partners and see what they say. We are all for the performance for pay model!

    Hugh

  9. Peter Callahan from OTTO Digital LLC
    commented on: April 21, 2008 at 11:54 AM
    Excellent read, and precisely the conversation that marketers and agencies alike need to be having. We need to get marketers comfortable on the mechanisms for measurement. It's all there, the data and capability for measurement exists, we just have to use and trust it.

  10. Mike Carney from Advaliant, a division of MediaTrust
    commented on: April 21, 2008 at 11:38 AM
    Very good article. If both parties are ready for a real partnership - where both parties have skin in the game, where excellence is highly rewarded and poor performance is not - the work is highly stimulating and highly rewarding. The most satisfying reward being a long-term partnership that works for both partners. That's why I after 10 years on the CPM side I love the daily excitement of CPA and CPL. Want to be a great partner of great marketer, prove it. When you do, that's a classic win/win!!

  11. Michael Myklin from Myklin Enterprises, LLC
    commented on: April 21, 2008 at 11:13 AM
    Interesting post but you are wrong in thinking marketers do not share the same confidence. My company has ALWAYS been willing to work for a portion of the profits our work generates. Some clients have taken advantage of our split pricing - either full fee up front or small fee and a percentage of sales. http://www.myklin.com

Leave a Comment

You must be signed in to comment. Sign In

Do you have strong opinions and inside knowledge about the topic of this article -- and do you want to share your insights, observations and points of view regularly with the readers of MediaPost? To be considered as a MediaPost contributing writer, please send pertinent info about your credentials, plus several column ideas and one example of your writing on the topic, to pfine@mediapost.com. Please see our editorial guidelines here first.

GREGORY WILSON
  • Gregory Wilson is founder and CEO of Red Ball Tiger, a Digital MindChange Company located in San Francisco. Greg's ideas on rethinking advertising for the digital marketplace can be found at http://www.digitalmindchange.com. You can reach Greg directly at greg@redballtiger.com.


AUTHORS

ARCHIVES

RECENT VIDEOS
Recent Video Insider Articles
Rethinking Interactive TV Measurement   
While today's interactive experiences include on-screen polling and multiple choice questions, the scale required for nationwide...
Closing Out 2009: Trends In Video   
One of my favorite things about working for an ad network is the diversity of partners...
TV Listings Data Will Be King   
With video content delivery further decomposing into linear, time-shifting Internet, and video-on-demand buckets growing, it will...
What Hath Apple Wrought?   
In 1844 Samuel Morse's first message over a 40-mile experimental telegraph from Washington to Baltimore was...
Scientific Advertising And Free Samples   
Up until this year '' which many consider to be the turning point for interactivity --...
Open The Floodgates: Greater Access To Content Will Raise Studio Profits   
Making movies is like product development. Each new Adam Sandler comedy or zombie spookfest is essentially...
Information Superhighway Within Reach   
The Internet has evolved into an omnipresent force shaping, or destroying, all that swims in its...
Thriving In A Market That Rewards Quality And Volume   
I am often approached by publishers who want to grow video ad revenue and are willing...
Thanks To Technology, Video is Everywhere   
The 21st century is an era of mass technology, which has made mass information a commodity...
Avoiding Video Network Pitfalls   
The news over the past few weeks has been interesting, to say the least, when it...
>> Video Insider Archives 
ABOUT MEDIAPOST • MASTHEAD • MEDIA KIT • RSS FEEDS • PRIVACY/TERMS & CONDITIONS
©2009 MediaPost Communications. All rights reserved.
1140 Broadway, 4th Floor, New York, NY 10001
tel. 212-204-2000, fax 212-204-2038, feedback@mediapost.com